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Is there a difference between sleeping late and waking up late vs sleeping early and waking up early?

Is there a difference between sleeping late and waking up late vs sleeping early and waking up early?


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For example, if I sleep at 1 AM and wake up at 10 AM, will it negatively affect my health opposed to sleeping at 10 PM and waking up at 7 AM?


There is a popular theory that each person has a certain "chronotype" [Ref 1]. Based on your genetics, you could be naturally an early person ("Lark") or a late person ("Owl") [Ref. 2]. What will negatively affect your health is actually fighting what you naturally are. You probably know which chronotype you are, and if not you can go by what time you naturally sleep/wake when you don't have school/job scheduling such as at the weekend.

[Ref. 1]:Chronotype Review [Ref. 2]:Social jetlag paper


Late sleep-wake time preference linked to depression in individuals with diabetes

People with type 2 diabetes who are "night owls" and prefer the evening for activity report having more symptoms of depression than those who are early to bed and early to rise, regardless of the quality of their sleep, a new study finds. Study results are being presented Saturday at the Endocrine Society's 99th annual meeting in Orlando, Fla.

"These findings are important because depression is common in patients with type 2 diabetes," said lead investigator Sirimon Reutrakul, M.D., an associate professor at Mahidol University Faculty of Medicine, Bangkok, Thailand. "Also, previous studies show that untreated depression is related to worse patient outcomes, including diabetes self-care, blood glucose control and diabetes complications."

In the general public, people with a later "chronotype," meaning a preference to go to bed late and wake up late, tend to have more symptoms of depression than do people who go to bed early and wake up early (early chronotype or morning preference), past studies have found. Reutrakul and her co-investigators wanted to study people with type 2 diabetes, who have an increased risk of depression, to learn whether a later chronotype, or preference for evening activity, was independently associated with greater depression symptoms.

Because chronotype may differ by geographic location, with a greater morning preference near the equator, the investigators studied diabetic patients from two different geographic regions: Chicago and Thailand. They received research funding from Rush University Medical Center in Chicago, Mahidol University Faculty of Medicine Ramathibodi Hospital in Bangkok and the Endocrine Society of Thailand.

The U.S. group consisted of 194 patients, 70 percent of whom were women. Similarly, in the Thai group, women comprised 67 percent of 282 patients. All participants answered questionnaires regarding symptoms of depression, sleep quality and preferred times for activity and sleep. Chicago patients answered the questionnaires between February and early April, whereas in Thailand, which has little seasonal variation, patients participated throughout the year, Reutrakul said.

For both groups, those who preferred the evening reported more depression symptoms than did those with a morning preference. This result remained even after the researchers adjusted their statistical analyses for sleep quality, age, sex and other factors that could affect depression.

Their findings, Reutrakul said, support an association between circadian regulation and psychological functioning in patients with type 2 diabetes. She pointed out, however, that they did not prove cause and effect and that the strength of the association was "only modest."

"We need further research to explore a combination of interventions that help with circadian timing, such as light therapy and melatonin," she said. "Learning more about the relationship between depression and circadian functioning might help us figure out strategies to improve physical and mental health for patients with diabetes."


6 Surprising Benefits of Staying Up Late

We all know how important sleep is, yet some of us can't help but to stay up and do things at night. Some people find they're more productive and creative during the night hours, and I have good news for those people: There are some surprising benefits of staying up late. Now of course if you stay up late and wake up early, neglecting sleep, these benefits might not make up for the various other ways you're hurting your health. But if you prefer to stay up late and wake up later, you don't have to feel totally guilty — you might be doing things right.

"There are a few benefits for staying up late and they are of course being more productive and more creative," says Dr. Sharad Paul over email. "The ability to stay up late is linked to adenosine activity in brain, and these are the same receptors that caffeine targets. Studies have shown that people with inherently more adenosine activity may 'naturally' be night owls.

If you're not currently a night owl, there's no reason to try to be one — there are plenty of benefits of being a morning person. But if you do thrive at 2am, you'll want to check out these six surprising benefits of staying up late.


Sleep Maintenance Insomnia – Keep Waking Up in the Night

Also known as middle of the night insomnia. This relates to waking in the middle of the night and having problems getting back to sleep. Everyone wakes up on the night and most of the time you don’t remember doing so. It only becomes a problem if you can’t get back to sleep.

This can be caused by an illness preventing you from sleeping soundly. Pain can also be to blame, causing you to wake you up in the middle of the night. Needing get up to go to the toilet and exposing yourself to bright light is another common cause.

If you do wake up in the night, remember to keep calm and relaxed to allow yourself to naturally drift back into a nice deep sleep. Don’t try to force yourself to sleep. That will only make you feel more stressed.

If you wake up in the night, avoid putting the light on. Your body reacts to light by suppressing the sleepiness hormone called melatonin. Your body is hard wired to believe that day equals awake and night equals sleep. Your body may interpret any light exposure by thinking that the sun has risen and so it is time to get up. So keep yourself in darkness.

If you have anxiety or depression, suppressed anxious thoughts can arise during one of these natural wake up times during the night and stimulate your brain, preventing you from sleeping.


Other Things that Impact Sleep

Young age. Infants may sleep up to 16 hours a day. But most won't sleep through the night without a feeding until 4 months of age. School-aged children may sleep 10 hours a day. Their sleep may be disturbed by an illness or fever. Call your doctor if your child has a fever and is sluggish when waking up.

Old age. People over age 60 may not sleep as deeply as younger people. Sleep apnea is also more common among older people.

Lifestyle. People who drink coffee, smoke cigarettes, or drink alcohol are more likely to have sleep problems than people who do not.

Medication. Many drugs can cause sleeplessness. Others can cause daytime fatigue.

Depression and anxiety. Insomnia is a common symptom of depression and anxiety.

Heart failure and lung problems. Some people find it difficult to sleep at night because they become breathless when they lie down. This can be a symptom of heart failure or a problem with the lungs.


What changes with later start time?

Results from schools that switched to a late start time are encouraging. Not only does the teens’ use of drugs, cigarettes, and alcohol decline, their academic performance improves significantly with later start time.

The Edina (Minnesota) School District superintendent and school board was the first district in the country to make the change. The decision was a result of a recommendation from the Minnesota Medical Association, back in 1996.

Research showed significant benefits for teens from that school as well as others with later start times.

For example, the crash rate for teens in Jackson Hole, Wyoming in 2013 dropped by 70 percent in the first year after the district adopted a later high school start.

Schools that have made a change have found a difference. Teenager image via www.shutterstock.com

At this point, hundreds of schools across the country in 44 states have been able to make the shift. The National Sleep Foundation had a count of over 250 high schools having made a change to a later start as early as 2007.

Furthermore, since 2014, major national health organizations have taken a policy stand to support the implementation of later starting time for high school. The American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Medical Association and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention have all come out with statements that support the starting time of high schools to be 8:30 a.m. or later.


7 Health Consequences Of Going To Bed Past Midnight

You love to say you're a night owl, yet your body is telling a very different story. Your circadian rhythms, the routine changes in your behavioral, mental and physical functions that occur over the course of a day, are regulated by a tiny area of the brain commonly known as your 'biological clock.' The suprachiasmatic nucleus (SCN) is shaped like a pine cone, but is about the size of a grain of rice, though it contains about 20,000 neurons.

When light enters your eye, it activates neurons in the retina that convert photons (light particles) to electrical signals. These signals travel along the optic nerve to the SCN which in turn stimulates several brain regions, including the pineal gland. The pineal gland responds by switching off production of the hormone melatonin, and this makes you feel more awake. The SCN also governs your body temperature, hormone secretion, urine production, and changes in blood pressure. After darkness falls, the SCN signals once again and your body's level of melatonin increases, making you feel drowsy.

This intricate and complex biological system responds daily and automatically to the rhythms of day and night. Like all biologic beings, you respond to your environment. You are a part of the whole. When you impose an artificial tempo to your day by going to bed too late, there will be real health consequences.

Type of Sleep

Sleep is a cycle of phases, a shift back and forth between rapid eye movement (REM) sleep and non-REM sleep. During REM sleep, memories and thoughts from the day are processed it is the stage of sleep in which vivid dreams occur. During non-REM sleep, many restorative functions occur. In the deepest phase of non-REM sleep (known as slow-wave sleep), the brain recovers from its daily activities and hormones are released, which help the body rebuild itself from damage done during the day.

After you fall asleep, you cycle through 90-minutes of non-REM sleep followed by REM sleep.

Oddly, the ratio of non-REM-to-REM sleep within these 90-minute cycles changes across the night, regardless of when you go to bed. Early in the night (between the hours of 11 p.m. and 3 a.m.), the majority of those cycles are comprised of deep non-REM sleep and very little REM sleep. Yet, in the second half of the night (the hours between 3 a.m. and 7 a.m.), this balance changes the 90-minute cycles are comprised of more REM sleep together with a lighter form of non-REM sleep. Because there exists a greater propensity for deep non-REM sleep earlier in the night, someone who sleeps from 9 p.m. to 5 a.m. (eight hours total) will have a different overall composition of sleep with more non-REM than someone who sleeps from 3 a.m. to 11 a.m. (also eight hours total) and so is likely to experience more REM.

Going to bed too late, then, will deprive you of some of the restorative functions that non-REM sleep normally provides.

Insomnia

A nearly immediate effect of going to bed after midnight is that it throws off your natural circadian rhythms, governed by your SCN, and this may lead to insomnia. As well as having a harder time falling asleep, you will also have trouble staying asleep. Even if you have a schedule that allows you to wake later, the rest of the world will not readily accommodate you. Often, the noise and commotion of the day will in all likelihood wake you before you wish it is a well-documented fact that night shift workers, despite having a schedule that allows for an adequate amount of sleep, get less sleep than those who work days.

Along with anxiety, a whole host of negative consequences flow from this basic fact of sleep deprivation.

In the workplace, the effects of too little sleep are revealed by reduced efficiency and productivity, errors, and accidents. Yet decreased driving ability is a very real-world risk associated with sleep debt. One study found an increased incidence of sleep-related crashes in drivers reporting less than seven hours of sleep per night on average. Additional contributing factors to these crashes included poor sleep quality, dissatisfaction with sleep duration, and daytime sleepiness. According to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, "drowsy driving" causes over 100,000 car crashes each year, resulting in about 1,550 deaths.

Immune response

The impact of too little sleep on the immune system has not received very much attention even though sleep deprivation has been shown to activate defense mechanisms and to elevate certain inflammatory cytokines or cell "messengers" (IL-6, TNF) in young adults. In an experiment, healthy participants had their sleep restricted to six hours per night results found the 24-hour secretory profile of IL-6 was increased in both sexes and TNF-alpha was increased in men. Both IL-6 and TNF-alpha are markers of systemic inflammation, which causes pain and soreness and may lead to osteoporosis or autoimmune diseases.

In another study, researchers reported sleep restriction decreased antibody production to vaccination. In participants vaccinated for influenza immediately following a six night run of short sleep (four hours per night), the level of antibodies decreased by more than 50 percent 10 days following the vaccination compared to those vaccinated after a six night run of regular sleep.

Cardiovascular risks

Reduced sleep is also related to an increase in both cardiovascular events and cardiovascular disease. In the Nurses' Health Study, researchers found evidence of increased risk of coronary events in female subjects who obtained seven hours or less of sleep per night compared to those who averaged eight hours per night. In another study, a two- or three-fold increase in risk of cardiovascular events, such as stroke or myocardial infarction, was found in subjects with an average sleep duration of five hours or less per night (or chronically having five hours or less of sleep per night at least twice per week) was reported. Similar findings have been observed in studies examining cardiovascular health in shift workers, who typically experience disruptions in their circadian rhythm. Although certain of a link between short sleep and cardiovascular risk, researchers do not understand the reason for this.

In a prospective study of 23,995 Japanese women, shorter sleep duration, specifically six hours or less per night, was associated with a higher risk of breast cancer when compared with women who slept seven hours per night. Researchers suggested that melatonin, which is secreted mainly from the pineal gland, is the key factor in this link between sleep and cancer. Shorter sleep results in a shorter duration of nocturnal melatonin secretion and lower melatonin levels have been associated with an increased risk of breast cancer.

Increasingly, scientists hypothesize that sleep deficits cause obesity. According to the authors of a study of 1,024 volunteers from the Wisconsin Sleep Cohort Study &mdash a population-based longitudinal study of sleep disorders &mdash too little sleep apparently alters your body's regulation of appetite-regulating hormones. Participants underwent nocturnal polysomnography and reported on their sleep habits through questionnaires and sleep diaries. In addition, each morning they gave blood samples, which were evaluated for serum leptin, ghrelin, adiponectin, insulin, glucose, and lipid profile.

After sorting through these measures as well as sleep habits and body mass index (BMI) for each of the participants, researchers identified a relationship between sleep duration and BMI. Increased BMI was proportional to decreased sleep duration for those participants who slept eight hours or less (74.4 percent of the sample) each night. Independent of BMI, short sleep patterns were also associated with low leptin and high ghrelin. Since reduced leptin and elevated ghrelin increase appetite, this likely explains the increase in BMI.

Sources: Basner M, Dinges DF. Dubious Bargain: Trading Sleep for Leno and Letterman. Sleep. 2009.

Kakizaki M, Kuriyama S, Tsuji I. Sleep duration and the risk of breast cancer: the Ohsaki Cohort Study. British Journal of Cancer. 2008.


ELI5: Why does staying up late and waking up at a normal time have a different feeling of tiredness than going to sleep at a normal time and waking up early?

I went to sleep at 4 AM and woke up at 12 PM today. That's 8 hours of sleep but I still feel tired and it's a totally different feeling of tiredness than if I were to go to sleep at 12 AM and wake up at say 7 AM.

This also means if you regularly maintain this pattern without sleep deprivation (I.e still sleep 8 hours every 24 cycle), the time you sleep makes no difference.

Anecdotal, but during the summer heat I switch day with night just to survive and be an active member of society. Never had an issue.

Also.. we do not have a definite theory why we sleep.

That. makes a lot of sense lol. Thanks for the answer!

Well, there are two factors here.

Sleep cycle. Waking up at the end of a cycle always feels better than in the middle, which is why 4/8 hours is better than 6 hours. Actual length varies by person too.

2) Sleep debt. If you sleep 6 hours a night instead of 8 for a week those 10 hours of missed sleep haven't gone away. At some point you still need to sleep them. So, staying up an extra 4 hours means you've missed an extra hour or so of sleep compared to your usual. Hence you are not done sleeping when you wake up. Again, exact times will vary from person to person.


How to Sleep Better at Night Naturally (The 4 Tips You Need to Know)

The amazing, and sometimes elusive, perfect night&rsquos sleep.

When you get it, the world is a friendlier place and you are in for an awesome day. But when you don&rsquot get it, you wonder how you&rsquore going to make it.

No matter what kind of sleep you got last night, great or terrible, this article will help you get that great sleep even better and that terrible sleep back to normal.

Your sleep is determined by your circadian rhythm .

Most of the time it's invisible, working enthusiastically in the background. You wake up when it's time to wake up and you go to sleep when it's time to go to sleep.

But occasionally we notice it.

Every year when the clocks shift, we all tend to feel a little off. (Looking at you, Spring Forward) That off feeling is your circadian rhythm. It's your body's internal clock that manages going to sleep, waking up and everything in between.


There are two ways your sleep can get off track.


When your sleep suffers, everything suffers. That&rsquos a fact. You might be able to hang in there for a time on small amounts of sleep but eventually, it will catch up with you. Some of the effects of having low quality sleep are:



This article is going to teach you the 4 lifestyle factors that most affect your circadian rhythm and how to get them working for you, not against you, to be able to:

  • fall asleep easily
  • stay asleep all night
  • wake up refreshed and ready to take on the day

1. Develop a Consistent Sleep Schedule


Consistently going to bed and waking up around the same time every day and night allows your body to get into a rhythm and ensures you get the most out of your time asleep.

Your body produces hormones and chemicals to help you fall asleep, wake you up, and everything that our body needs in between.

When you are on a consistent sleep schedule, these hormones and chemicals get released in the correct amounts at the same-ish time every day.

What not having a consistent sleep schedule looks like:

  • consistently staying up late
  • waking up whenever feels good
  • sleeping-in late on the weekends

When you get into this cycle, those important sleep and wake hormones can be released either too late, too early, or are not in the right amount. This causes strain on the whole system and can lead to less than ideal sleep: tossing and turning, waking up too early, feeling groggy when you wake up.

A) Pick a reasonable time to go to bed and wake up every morning.

If you usually go to bed around 10:30 or 11 pm, don't decide you are going to start sleeping at 9 pm. Choose 10:30, or start small by going with 10:15 pm. You want to choose a time that you can realistically stick to 90% of the time.

It's not important how you do this, just that you do it.

James Clear has an amazing article outlining different strategies to track habits. I highly recommend checking it out, and more importantly choosing a strategy that works for you.

My personal favorite, because it's so easy to stick with:

Every night before you hop in bed and every morning when you wake up, write down in a notebook or on a piece of paper what time it is.

After a couple of weeks, you will have a good idea of what time you are actually getting to bed.

2. Morning Sunlight vs Evening Screen-Light

Light exposure in the first half of the day (preferably natural sunlight) rewinds your circadian clock and gives your body a definitive signal that it is daylight and a time to be awake, alert, and active.

The lack of light in the evenings tells your body and brain that it is time to start winding things down to get ready to sleep.

The main ways your body senses light are through your eyes and, surprisingly enough, your ears which have a significant amount of receptors that sense light.

  • staying indoors most of the day without getting any natural light
  • watching tv, scrolling through your phone, or hopping on the computer before going to bed

All of your devices with a screen emit what is called, blue light. This one of the many types of light coming from the sun, but most importantly, the type of light responsible for telling your body that it's time to wake up and get started on your day.

When you are exposed to this kind of light at night, your body gets confused and delays the process of secreting melatonin , an important hormone for falling asleep and staying asleep.

Blue light exposure at night has been to shown to :

  • make it harder to fall asleep
  • make it harder to stay asleep
  • make it harder to wake up rested

A) Get direct morning/midday sunlight

  • Do not wear sunglasses during this time if possible during this time(its only 10-15 minutes). As I said above, the main way your body senses light is through the eyes. If you cover your eyes with the latest sun-blocking technology, you don&rsquot get the benefits of sun exposure.
  • If you are really feeling like going all-in (and you have the appropriate environment for it) take your shirt off, or if that&rsquos a little much, roll up your sleeves to show a little skin and soak up as much sunlight as you can in the morning

B) Avoid blue light at night

  • Simply avoid screens after dark and before bed. Read a paper book, spend some quality time with your family, unplug.

3. Nightly Stress Management

The most important hormone secreted to manage your sleep/wake cycle is cortisol, aka the stress hormone.

Ideally your levels of cortisol peak in the morning to wake you up and then slowly decline throughout the day.

If you can stay in this nice rhythm, you have a really good chance of getting a good night&rsquos sleep.

Unfortunately, your workday usually has something to say about that.

Between traffic, stress at work, and life stressors, there are a million and one reasons your cortisol might get bumped up throughout the day. If these stresses are chronic, meaning they show up consistently, they can lead to a chronic elevation of your cortisol levels.

When your cortisol levels become chronically elevated, they may not be low enough at night for you to fall asleep easily. Or they may spike early in the morning, way before your alarm goes off, waking you up and not letting you get those last few hours of sleep you deserve.

Create an evening routine that works for YOU.

Developing a nightly wind-down routine has been shown to you get a good night's sleep and wake up refreshed by lowering your cortisol levels after a potentially hectic day.

Check out Austin Gilli s' article for an in-depth look at some great evening routine ideas and strategies.

It doesn't matter whether you are into:

  • breathing and meditation
  • reading a good fiction book or biography
  • sitting down and watching a funny, relaxing tv show (you put your blue-light blocking glasses on first of course)

By consistently taking time to relax and slow down before bed, you are lowering your cortisol levels and priming your body for a great night's sleep. 

The 4th factor affecting our circadian rhythm is movement.

Studies have shown that activity (even low-level activities such as stretching, yoga, a walk around the block) first thing in the morning help to reset your circadian rhythm and get your body ready for the day

Going from laying in bed to sitting in your car, to sitting in the office, to sitting in the car again, plopping on the couch after work, and then getting back in bed at night.

While this isn't healthy in general, you are not giving your body any signal what-so-ever that the day has started and it's time to get the blood pumping.

Your body needs movement to transport nutrients and blood to our muscles and internal organs after MOST of us have been stationary all night. you know who you are. (looking at you bed-hogs/sleeping karate experts).

If you don't already have a morning exercise habit, start by picking one simple activity such as stretching, yoga, or going for a walk and set the timer for just 5 minutes.

You can use one of the habit tracking techniques first referenced in the section on Sleep Schedule, and just shoot for consistency.

Your body, mind, and sleep will thank you.

Conclusion: Which factor are you tackling first?

The 4 factors that will help you to fall asleep faster, stay asleep longer and wake up ready to take on the day.

Which one are you going to tackle first? Is there something you struggle with that I left out?


Are musicians bound to be night-persons?

While looking up for hints and tips on working at home to improve my disciplinary struggles, everyone basically suggested beating the crowd by waking up in the early morning for maximum productivity. By that, they usually suggest 5-7am mornings.

There are already lots of scientific explanation (ie. Circadian Rhythm, etc.) that already suggest human beings live healthier and become more productive when they start their days in the morning (not late-mornings/afternoon!) I'm not qualified to explain the reasonings myself but I'm certain this is slowly becoming general knowledge by now.

But then it got me wondering: Is it possible for gigging musicians to become morning persons, without disrupting the 7-8 hour optimal sleep period?

I myself have longed to be come a morning person for quite sometime now. While I currently have a lot of flexibility with my schedule at the moment, I still think it is rather challenging for gigging musicians to be morning birds without compromising sleeping hours.

1) We can agree that majority of gigs are usually set in late-evenings to night time. Put in the setup/teardown into consideration, the job is usually done by a later timing.

2) Even if there are day gigs, I find it hard to arrange rehearsal times before dinner time. Our rehearsals are usually on weekday evenings/nights, or even weekend nights since most of my bandmates have dayjobs to fulfil, and some do shiftwork in the commercial industry (I myself work in education enrichment, so weekends are usually filled with work), so afternoon weekend rehearsals are usually out of the question.

Has anyone been able to strike a balance between being a morning person and gigging at night? I'd love to hear about how you are able to do so!

MrInsanePolack

Platinum Member

When I was gigging, I would set my sleep schedule around my job, keeping practice time in mind (7pm, Tuesday and Thursday). If I worked an 8-5, I would get up at 6am. When I worked midnight to 8am, I would get up at 5pm. And when I worked 4pm to midnight, I would get up at 2pm.

I love to sleep. I would always make sure I have myself 8 hours each night/day, plus at least 2 hours to get ready for work/practice each day. When we would play gigs, I would just deal with it and recover from the schedule change the next day.

I haven't gigged since 2002. That's a whole nother story. But I still maintain getting up 2 hours before work. Even on days off I still try to get up early so not to disrupt my schedule. I now get up at 4am to be to work at 6. I don't see myself changing jobs, so if I retire at 65, I've got about 22 years of getting up at 4am left.

So no, I don't think all musicians become night people. Even when I was active, maintaining an income was more important than playing, because that income allowed me to live and be able to play/gig. That and I like the sun.

No Way Jose

Silver Member

Old Dog new Cans

Senior Member

I worked 3rd shift for about 25 years or more. Now, I'm no longer working that shift, AND I STRUGGLE--BAD. My body is completely upside down. I feel lethargy most days and wake up around 10 or 11pm because that was prime time when I was working.

My point is, I think it has a lot do with HOW MUCH the musician gigs. Is it a weekend deal, or are they touring and traveling a lot. I think it's difficult personally. When I was working that shift, I'd start at 7pm, get home hopefully, by 430am (had an hr long drive home). I would hopefully sleep until noon. Early on, I would sleep until dark sometimes, never seeing sunshine--that sucked.

Danondrums

Well-known member

GetAgrippa

Platinum Member

Stroman

Platinum Member

SmoothOperator

Gold Member

I've kind of suspected this. It makes me sad that there aren't more day-time music related events.

There are definitely cultures that play music during the day. Sometimes, it is sad to see bar bands during the day.

GetAgrippa

Platinum Member

GruntersDad

Administrator - Mayor

SmoothOperator

Gold Member

I think light synchronization is a pretty fundamental biology. Melatonin and all is pretty well understood biology. There are nerve endings that go from eye directly to the suprachiasmatic nucleus(SCN) that regulates circadian rhythms. Babies can see light (but not images) as soon as they are born so that they can start daylight synchronization. I personally prefer to observe sunrise, sunset, and noon time sun.

Suprachiasmatic nucleus - Wikipedia

GetAgrippa

Platinum Member

DrumDoug

Senior Member

EhhSoCheap

Member

Danondrums

Well-known member

PorkPieGuy

Platinum Member

BUT, you may have to make a few changes which may include playing a different genre of music playing other places besides clubs/bars, etc. and only limiting your late-night gigs to days off the next day (if you work first shift).

I've played several different instruments and LOTS of different genres of music, and I've had a number of different experiences, so I'll lend some of these no-late-night gigs here.

Gigs I've played that didn't lend themselves to late nights:

Family reunions - May sound silly, but people loved it! Got to play with some other really cool musicians too. (played guitar, hammered dulcimer, and percussion)

Down-home-type festivals (e.g. apple festival, pumpkin fesitvals, etc.) (Played drums, guitar, percussion)

Churches - Believe it or not, there was a time that you could gig just playing Christian-based music that wasn't of the praise and worship variety. The only time I've ever "toured" professionally was playing at churches 6 nights a week. We were done and packed up by 9pm every night). (Played guitar, drums, keys, bass)

Stores - I used to play and sell a crap-ton of CDs at a local general store. It was some of the best money I ever made as a musician (Played hammered dulcimer and mountain dulcimer)

Benefits/Fundraisers - I've never played a benefit that went on and on through the night, but it's rare I get paid for those too. Feel free to scratch this one off your list (played drums, guitar, percussion, etc.)

Coffee shop - We have never had any late-night coffee shops around here. (Played guitar, hammered dulcimer, drums)

Pumpkin patch/Corn-maze-type places - Set up the PA, sit around and jam for a few hours, get paid and go home! Our shift was usually something like 1-3 in the afternoon. (played drums)

Weddings - Never played a reception. Only played ceremonies (played piano, hammered dulcimer). One and done. If you can take the pressure, it's easy money.

Small stages at big music festivals - I've done this, and none of the small stages ever go late into the night like the big stages do.

Biker rides: This is a new one on me, but I've played a few biker rides this year. One thing I learned is that bikers who like to do rides only ride during the day. Every ride I've done has been over by around 3-4pm.

I'm sure there are others that I'm forgetting. If you really want to get home, play outdoor stuff but leave your lights at home. Tell the organizers something like "We are happy to play, but we don't have a lighting rig, so we can't play past dark. We also need to see to tear down." We got out an hour early from a gig just last night by doing so.

Dr_Watso

Platinum Member

My only issue is the times when you hit the stage at 11pm or whatever, the late headline shows, I feel tired. I feel as though I'm not performing the same as if I was "fresh" without a full day of nonsense tiring my brain.

I try to sleep in more when I have shows to play late, and I've also taken to "clearing my mind" with meditation on some gig days. Not really that worried about catching up out of schedule but there have been times where it's like the world is against you getting a full night sleep and things just keep you up late/waking up early for like 4 days.

Those long spells of little sleep can take a toll.

Senior Member

Thanks for your input everyone! I'm glad to see that I'm not the only person who finds juggling day work and night gigs to be a challenge.

Good to hear from the other side of the argument too. I do agree to an extent that research findings can't and shouldn't be taken as facts. But I suppose the Circadian Rhythm is factual though.

I can definitely relate to those long near-24 hour days. For a person who only reached the third decade of life not too long ago, I can already see the drastic difference of getting through a day with 6 hours of sleep compared to 7+. Gone were the days where I get through 17 hour days of university courses, work and extensive practice with 2 hours of sleep, which is partially responsible for messing up my sleep cycle and caused me a period of sleeping disorder. This is why I want to establish a routine one that is most natural to a human being possible.

BUT, you may have to make a few changes which may include playing a different genre of music playing other places besides clubs/bars, etc. and only limiting your late-night gigs to days off the next day (if you work first shift).

I've played several different instruments and LOTS of different genres of music, and I've had a number of different experiences, so I'll lend some of these no-late-night gigs here.

Gigs I've played that didn't lend themselves to late nights:

Family reunions - May sound silly, but people loved it! Got to play with some other really cool musicians too. (played guitar, hammered dulcimer, and percussion)

Down-home-type festivals (e.g. apple festival, pumpkin fesitvals, etc.) (Played drums, guitar, percussion)

Churches - Believe it or not, there was a time that you could gig just playing Christian-based music that wasn't of the praise and worship variety. The only time I've ever "toured" professionally was playing at churches 6 nights a week. We were done and packed up by 9pm every night). (Played guitar, drums, keys, bass)

Stores - I used to play and sell a crap-ton of CDs at a local general store. It was some of the best money I ever made as a musician (Played hammered dulcimer and mountain dulcimer)

Benefits/Fundraisers - I've never played a benefit that went on and on through the night, but it's rare I get paid for those too. Feel free to scratch this one off your list (played drums, guitar, percussion, etc.)

Coffee shop - We have never had any late-night coffee shops around here. (Played guitar, hammered dulcimer, drums)

Pumpkin patch/Corn-maze-type places - Set up the PA, sit around and jam for a few hours, get paid and go home! Our shift was usually something like 1-3 in the afternoon. (played drums)

Weddings - Never played a reception. Only played ceremonies (played piano, hammered dulcimer). One and done. If you can take the pressure, it's easy money.

Small stages at big music festivals - I've done this, and none of the small stages ever go late into the night like the big stages do.

Biker rides: This is a new one on me, but I've played a few biker rides this year. One thing I learned is that bikers who like to do rides only ride during the day. Every ride I've done has been over by around 3-4pm.

I'm sure there are others that I'm forgetting. If you really want to get home, play outdoor stuff but leave your lights at home. Tell the organizers something like "We are happy to play, but we don't have a lighting rig, so we can't play past dark. We also need to see to tear down." We got out an hour early from a gig just last night by doing so.

Thanks! And yes I'd definitely like to play in more of those gigs! Our band aims to cater for weddings, and we're slowly gaining momentum. But I must say festival gigs and even coffee shops can be quite competitive in dense urban cities though. Will need to up our game!

I wonder if there are people who make a living solely by gigging exclusively during the day. I used to jam with a keyboardist in his 60s who makes a living by playing exclusively in a local club. While he'll most likely be a night person, I wish I'd ask him about how he copes.



Comments:

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